Your Lying Eyes

Dedicated to uncovering the truth that stands naked before your lying eyes.

E-mail Me

Twitter: yourlyingeyes

25 September 2005

Sodomists Need Not Appply

If you have a large organization rocked by a scandal where a number of men have been found to have been sodomizing teenaged boys, a rather obvious first step towards fixing this would be to try to screen out men who'd be more likely to desire sex with teenaged boys. That seems just so sensible as to defy further discussion....Read more

Au contraire. The Vatican is proposing to do just that and the reaction is anything but ho-hum.
Objections on the grounds of "fairness" are prominent:
"Do you want to work for an organization that barely tolerates your existence and says that people like you can no longer be accepted?" asked one New York priest who described himself as homosexual and chaste. "What kind of self-hatred is necessary to continue in a place like that?"
Priests rail at Vatican's upcoming ban on gays - Newsday.

And the presumed irrelevancy is another common theme:
Reliable studies show that pedophiles (those adults who sexually abuse children) are overwhelmingly heterosexual. In fact, homosexuals are statistically underrepresented as those who sexually abuse children.
Letter to the editor - New York Times

This latter claim is often made, and never are any of these allegedly "reliable" studies ever actually referenced. If you Google on "pedophilia homosexuality" you will find 266,000 links most of it clearly agenda driven. Here's where Your Lying Eyes (figuratively, I hope) should rule the day, which in this case requires an "Affirmed" to the proposition: "A homosexual man is more likely to engage in sexual activity with a teenaged boy than a heterosexual man."

But, BUT (yes, that's a big but, not to be confused with this), the Roman Catholic priesthood presents a little twist that does confuse things some: celibacy. What celibacy does is remove normal relations with women from the mix, and that results in a rather unstable brew.

A critical distinction needs to be made between homosexual behavior and homosexuality itself - i.e., gayness. When deprived of women, while at sea or in prison, for example, otherwise heterosexual men will resort to homosexual behavior (in particular the strong will prey upon the weak). What's remarkable about gay men is not that they will have sex with men - under the right (i.e., wrong) circumstances, men are capable of having sex with anyone or anything - but that they do not want to have sex with women under any circumstances.

In the ancient world, man-boy couplings were not uncommon, and it is not hard to imagine that in those days common adult women might not have been the most attractive creatures to have walked the earth. Teenaged girls, on the other hand, were the most valuable treasures a man could own, and thus not generally available. Steve Sailer has pointed out that it was Christianity's great achievement to have eliminated much of this willful homosexual behavior. "The triumph of Jerusalem over Athens came both by negative sanctions on vice but also by the increased status of women under Christianity, which made companionate marriage the ideal."

But for priests in today's church, companionate marriage is not the ideal - and so one wonders: are the priests who fondle boys gay or are they straight men excercizing a time-"honored" alternative to sex with women? How ironic that the very institution most responsible for eliminating sodomy-as-choice could be still encouraging it among its own clergy.

90 Comments:

Anonymous jth said...

What's the argument here? Priest aren't suppose to have sex period. Not with women, men, children, animals or themselves. The RC church has enabled pedophiles for so long, gays are afraid of priests. Celibacy is not normal. If the church wants normal people in this role, change the celibacy rule.

September 26, 2005 11:34 AM  
Blogger ziel said...

I agree - celibacy is the real stumbling block right now. Sailer has a good article on this - the money quote:
ordain[ing] women ... wouldn't work without [marriage] because there would eventually be a large lesbian element among priests, and nobody (especially the family guys who pay a lot of the bills) wants to go to church to be harangued by resentful lesbians.

September 26, 2005 9:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pedophilia, strictly speaking, is about sexual attraction to prepubescents. Whether or not those pedophile statistics are valid, they're irrelevant to the priest sex scandals, which are overwhelmingly about priests and teenage boys. I think the American church's official report concluded that 85 percent of the victims were males between 12 and 17. The term "ephebophilia" is sometimes used, although classical scholars prefer the more correct "jailbaitophilia".

If you assume that 30 percent of RC priests are homosexually inclined, and all the non-teen-boy victims were post-pubescent girls (not true, but close enough for back o'the envelope estimates), then it looks like gay priests are 13 times more likely than straight priests to be caught for this kind of abuse.

Interestingly enough, I saw a study on internet predators - people (99 percent men) who solicit sex from 12-17 year olds over the internet. There the victims were 75 percent girls, 25 percent boys. Hmm... now, gay men are usually estimated at 2 or 3 percent of the male population, so if we say 2.5 percent, then it looks like gay men are detected engaging in this activity at, hmm, 13 times the rate of straight men.

I'm not making any sweeping claims here... just tentatively advancing two pieces of evidence.

September 27, 2005 7:10 PM  
Blogger ziel said...

Thrasymachus, is that you?
My hunch is that your back-of-the-envelope assessment is right - the scandal is mostly driven by an excess of gays in the clergy. But when you take a male only club and mix in celibacy and alcohol (another disproportionate problem with priests) and you've got one messy situation.
The Conventional Wisdom claim that gays are not commonly pedophiles really annoys me - since as you point out this is not pedophilia. And gays are notorious for going on vacations in third world countries with readily available adolescent teen prostitutes at their disposal.

September 27, 2005 8:25 PM  
Blogger GayLikeAFox said...

I wouldn't be surprised if gay men were more likely to be ephebophilic than straights. I don't think that gay men are necessarily more likely to be attracted to 12-17 year olds, but the gay male subculture is so libertine in general that I think gay men with those urges probably feel more comfortable acting on them.

On the other hand, male-male relationships may naturally tend towards the intergenerational as a way of acheiving a form of polarity.

September 27, 2005 9:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No, I'm not Thrasmachus, though I sure seem to be channelling him, don't I? (Or was he channelling me? Thras: If my earlier comment here was one of the inspirations for your recent post, a hat tip would be nice.)

GayLikeAFox's comments are well taken. Contemporary gay culture is highly licentious, and this encourages gays with attractions to teen boys to act out.

(By the way, sexual attraction to teenagers is biologically quite normal; it's just morally wrong in a society that values equality in interpersonal relationships. That's why there's a taboo on adult males having sex with teen girls: if there wasn't, everyone would want a 15-year-old mistress. There's no taboo on rolling around in broken glass, because nobody wants to do that.)

Back to gays, I think that gays mnay be able to rationalize their seduction of teenagers in a way that straights can't. A gay can see himself a helping a boy "come to terms with his sexuality" etc. The equivalent self-deceptions ("making her a woman" etc.) are not really supported on the heterosexual side. The very pernicious construction of the Questioning Youth serves - well, obviously to some extent it serves completely sincere and compassionate motives - but it *also* serves to some extent as a blind for promoting pro-ephebo attitudes.

About celibacy: the other churches (not to mention schools, social agencies, any institution enabling contact with teenagers) have plenty sex scandals, too. To some extent, the media have singled out the Catholic Church due to (a) deeply embedded anti-Catholic prejudice and (b) the fabled wealth of the Church, which starts the lawyers salivating. Cardinal Ratzinger complained about this back in 2001. However at that time it looked like about 1 or 2 percent of American priests were implicated; the final figure was around 4 percent (that's according to their official report). So it does look like the RCs have a particular problem -- probably the result of all the gay priests, I have to conclude. It's a pity, 'cos based on gay stereotypes I imagine that many of those gays are excellent priests: empathetic, aesthetically aware, articulate. Who know how many of these priest-teen entanglements started out as innocent relationships that got out of hand? However, the 80 or 90 percent of gay priests who haven't had sex with teens may have to suffer for the sins of the (admittedly rather large) minority who have.

As for the priest shortage, some conservatives make the case that sweeping away the whole "Lavender Seminary" phenomenon may increase vocations among heterosexual men, who will no longer be turned off by the very gay, or at least militantly pro-gay, PC atmosphere that prevailed in large parts of the Church post-Vatican II. That may be wishful thinking, though.

--Intellectual Pariah

September 28, 2005 10:11 AM  
Anonymous iwmpop said...

Did you ever think that some of the "young boys" enjoyed being sodomized by whoever? Maybe not all, and I would certainly agree that under a certain age, and done with force (a rape effectively) then the law should descend with all it's force. BUT - that there are juveniles/adolescents who enjoy anal relations with younger or older men, and who enjoy fulfilling BOTH roles, male/female, is without doubt. Like most "forbidden fruits" when they are caught enjoying them, they shout "rape" - "pervert" etc. Just as it happens with younger females who get caught with teacher!!!

November 05, 2005 12:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You aren't going to believe this website! If you really like milton sisters then this is even bigger than you can imagine!

Twins Twins Twins! Free sample pic here at my blog:
Milton Twins !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And feel free to post at my blog too.

November 09, 2005 8:26 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey guys, we're the Milton Twins, Marissa and Melissa. We're the hottest, wildest, and most willing set of twins you'll ever see in your life. That's right. identical twinswith identical tastes and we're ready to share it all with you. The fun doesn't stop there, we've gotten all of our friends involved too. Boys and girls that we love to share. You just found all your fantasies in one site. So come check it out. We promise you've never seen anything like this. Milton Sisters

November 22, 2005 10:41 AM  
Anonymous Buy Levitra said...

Great article! Thanks.

August 18, 2007 5:08 PM  
Anonymous Phentermine said...

Thanks for interesting article.

August 18, 2007 10:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonimous said...

Excellent website. Good work. Very useful. I will bookmark!

September 10, 2007 2:26 PM  
Anonymous PaydayLoans said...

joNpFL You have a talant! Write more!

October 30, 2007 12:36 PM  
Anonymous Auto insurance company said...

M1vsvu Please write anything else!

October 30, 2007 10:31 PM  
Anonymous Hydrocodone said...

nsTG9z The best blog you have!

November 01, 2007 11:02 PM  
Anonymous mortgage and loan said...

KiogkE Please write anything else!

November 02, 2007 1:45 PM  
Anonymous aloha express tours said...

Hello all!

November 02, 2007 2:34 PM  
Anonymous fioricet cheap said...

Wonderful blog.

November 02, 2007 3:17 PM  
Anonymous lawsuit celebrex said...

actually, that's brilliant. Thank you. I'm going to pass that on to a couple of people.

November 02, 2007 4:24 PM  
Anonymous auto insurance company said...

Wonderful blog.

November 02, 2007 5:26 PM  
Anonymous buy phentermine cheap buy viagra cheap said...

Wonderful blog.

November 03, 2007 6:57 AM  
Anonymous mixing xanax and aderol said...

Magnific!

November 03, 2007 11:35 AM  
Anonymous is xenical fda approved said...

Please write anything else!

November 03, 2007 12:37 PM  
Anonymous lunesta alesse tramadol val said...

Thanks to author.

November 03, 2007 1:34 PM  
Anonymous JohnBraun said...

F7t9gh write more, thanks.

November 04, 2007 2:06 AM  
Anonymous college sex magazine said...

actually, that's brilliant. Thank you. I'm going to pass that on to a couple of people.

November 04, 2007 10:38 PM  
Anonymous dry sex photo said...

Wonderful blog.

November 04, 2007 11:12 PM  
Anonymous angelna jolie sex said...

Hello all!

November 05, 2007 1:04 AM  
Anonymous lesbeon sex boobs said...

Hello all!

November 05, 2007 1:36 AM  
Anonymous julia taylor anal said...

actually, that's brilliant. Thank you. I'm going to pass that on to a couple of people.

November 05, 2007 2:14 AM  
Anonymous sex addict help said...

Thanks to author.

November 05, 2007 2:42 AM  
Anonymous episcopalian same sex said...

actually, that's brilliant. Thank you. I'm going to pass that on to a couple of people.

November 05, 2007 3:10 AM  
Anonymous pa morgana sex said...

actually, that's brilliant. Thank you. I'm going to pass that on to a couple of people.

November 05, 2007 3:44 AM  
Anonymous bbs loli sex said...

Nice Article.

November 05, 2007 4:15 AM  
Anonymous beach sex pic said...

actually, that's brilliant. Thank you. I'm going to pass that on to a couple of people.

November 05, 2007 4:56 AM  
Anonymous crazy sex comic said...

Please write anything else!

November 05, 2007 5:39 AM  
Anonymous hot sex thumbnails said...

Good job!

November 05, 2007 6:13 AM  
Anonymous privat sex dansk said...

Please write anything else!

November 05, 2007 6:43 AM  
Anonymous male gym sex said...

Ever notice how fast Windows runs? Neither did I.

November 05, 2007 7:15 AM  
Anonymous night sex vision said...

Wonderful blog.

November 05, 2007 7:54 AM  
Anonymous dog sex licking said...

Magnific!

November 05, 2007 8:29 AM  
Anonymous free lesbian teen porn videos said...

All generalizations are false, including this one.

November 05, 2007 8:55 AM  
Anonymous booty fetish sex said...

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.

November 05, 2007 9:24 AM  
Anonymous brazilian carnival sex said...

Magnific!

November 05, 2007 10:00 AM  
Anonymous adult sex clips said...

Lottery: A tax on people who are bad at math.

November 05, 2007 10:32 AM  
Anonymous japan car sex said...

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

November 05, 2007 11:06 AM  
Anonymous get prescription said...

Beam me aboard, Scotty..... Sure. Will a 2x10 do?

November 05, 2007 11:36 AM  
Anonymous cheap generic drugs viagra cialis levitra said...

Lottery: A tax on people who are bad at math.

November 05, 2007 12:08 PM  
Anonymous inuyasha sex doujin said...

Lottery: A tax on people who are bad at math.

November 05, 2007 1:17 PM  
Anonymous biggest sex tit said...

If ignorance is bliss, you must be orgasmic.

November 05, 2007 2:02 PM  
Anonymous giraffes having sex said...

Suicidal twin kills sister by mistake!

November 05, 2007 2:40 PM  
Anonymous asian sex discussions said...

actually, that's brilliant. Thank you. I'm going to pass that on to a couple of people.

November 05, 2007 3:11 PM  
Anonymous all male sex said...

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.

November 05, 2007 3:48 PM  
Anonymous sex black woman said...

640K ought to be enough for anybody. - Bill Gates 81

November 05, 2007 4:18 PM  
Anonymous daddys friend sex said...

What is a free gift ? Aren't all gifts free?

November 05, 2007 4:42 PM  
Anonymous onegai twins sex said...

Suicidal twin kills sister by mistake!

November 05, 2007 5:09 PM  
Anonymous cocaine heavy said...

Build a watch in 179 easy steps - by C. Forsberg.

November 05, 2007 5:41 PM  
Anonymous name said...

Lottery: A tax on people who are bad at math.

November 05, 2007 6:09 PM  
Anonymous first porn said...

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.

November 05, 2007 6:49 PM  
Anonymous real teen porn said...

Oops. My brain just hit a bad sector.

November 05, 2007 7:17 PM  
Anonymous anime porn sites said...

Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies

November 05, 2007 7:58 PM  
Anonymous lesbins having sex said...

Magnific!

November 05, 2007 8:29 PM  
Anonymous babe lesbian sex said...

What is a free gift ? Aren't all gifts free?

November 05, 2007 8:59 PM  
Anonymous french movie porn said...

A flashlight is a case for holding dead batteries.

November 05, 2007 9:31 PM  
Anonymous chlid porn said...

Nice Article.

November 05, 2007 10:07 PM  
Anonymous hailey paige porn pics said...

Please write anything else!

November 05, 2007 10:53 PM  
Anonymous christine young free anal pictures said...

Save the whales, collect the whole set

November 05, 2007 11:30 PM  
Anonymous free visalia sex said...

What is a free gift ? Aren't all gifts free?

November 06, 2007 12:06 AM  
Anonymous porn star pebbles mpeg movies said...

A lot of people mistake a short memory for a clear conscience.

November 06, 2007 12:47 AM  
Anonymous hentai teen sex said...

Lottery: A tax on people who are bad at math.

November 06, 2007 1:17 AM  
Anonymous impotence and phentermi said...

640K ought to be enough for anybody. - Bill Gates 81

November 06, 2007 1:52 AM  
Anonymous cg girl sex said...

Build a watch in 179 easy steps - by C. Forsberg.

November 06, 2007 2:35 AM  
Anonymous pictures explicit sex said...

Beam me aboard, Scotty..... Sure. Will a 2x10 do?

November 06, 2007 3:18 AM  
Anonymous califonia sex offenders said...

Please write anything else!

November 06, 2007 4:08 AM  
Anonymous car hot sex said...

Energizer Bunny Arrested! Charged with battery.

November 06, 2007 4:51 AM  
Anonymous freckle face sex said...

Nice Article.

November 06, 2007 5:31 AM  
Anonymous hot juicy porn said...

A flashlight is a case for holding dead batteries.

November 06, 2007 6:14 AM  
Anonymous infants having sex said...

All generalizations are false, including this one.

November 06, 2007 7:10 AM  
Anonymous watching porn bristol said...

Please write anything else!

November 06, 2007 8:00 AM  
Anonymous jewish sex free said...

Oops. My brain just hit a bad sector.

November 06, 2007 8:46 AM  
Anonymous polish sex words said...

Beam me aboard, Scotty..... Sure. Will a 2x10 do?

November 06, 2007 9:25 AM  
Anonymous biker porn links said...

Lottery: A tax on people who are bad at math.

November 06, 2007 10:04 AM  
Anonymous lake sex parties said...

Lottery: A tax on people who are bad at math.

November 06, 2007 10:42 AM  
Anonymous black teen reality porn said...

Clap on! , Clap off! clap@#&$NO CARRIER

November 06, 2007 11:15 AM  
Anonymous pruritis anal severe night said...

What is a free gift ? Aren't all gifts free?

November 06, 2007 11:58 AM  
Anonymous papi chulo sex said...

C++ should have been called B

November 06, 2007 12:43 PM  
Anonymous easy customer comments on herbal phentermine ho said...

What is a free gift ? Aren't all gifts free?

November 06, 2007 1:21 PM  
Anonymous phentermine federal express shipping said...

Magnific!

November 06, 2007 2:10 PM  
Anonymous buy phentermine online forums said...

Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.

November 06, 2007 3:01 PM  
Anonymous hungarian honey sex said...

When there's a will, I want to be in it.

November 06, 2007 3:38 PM  

Post a Comment

<< Home